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7 hours ago by shriphani

So we should be able to walk on the surface of a pool filled with ketchup?

I've seen this video of people walking on custard on brainiac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz9KnPZWOgs

7 hours ago by surround

No, ketchup is shear-thinning, meaning it’s less solid when under stress.

6 hours ago by agumonkey

I wonder if these properties are used in analog devices... I recently learned that ovens had thermal switches based on wax (and expansion under heat).

5 hours ago by yesenadam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax_motor

If you've flown, you put your life in a wax motor's waxy hands: "Wax motors are used...to control fuel, hydraulic, and other oils critical to safe flight today in modern airplanes."

5 hours ago by teeray

Melting / Solidifying wax is also the basis of old-school steam radiator thermostats.

6 hours ago by klyrs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilatant#Applications

I'd say that shear thickening fluids as used in traction control systems can be seen as an analog clutch.

6 hours ago by thihguy

The lock in a washing machine door works like that, which is why it takes two minutes to unlock.

6 hours ago by contravariant

Just because it's non-Newtonian doesn't mean it's identical to oobleck. All it means is that it's not Newtonian.

Besides, you can run on water (or at least, some lizards can) at high enough speeds, though I'm not sure if water still behaves Newtonian in those situations.

6 hours ago by csunbird

Braniac is back? I miss that show

6 hours ago by thihguy

Unlikely - a spoon sinks in it.

3 hours ago by perl4ever

I was trying to find the best way to clean copper pots. Sometimes people note that ketchup works, but it's hardly cost effective. The most basic option seems to be salt and vinegar, but what could you add to it (from a minimalist perspective) to give it the clinging consistency and homogeneity of something like ketchup? I thought maybe cornstarch, but it did not suspend; it settled out.

25 minutes ago by del_operator

Yeah, I kept doing that for my copper pots once a month with different things: ketchup, bar keepers friend, etc. It was never an easy wipe away experience like I imagined.

2 hours ago by ouid

Cornstarch water is shear thickening, wheras ketchup is, I assume, shear thinning.

2 hours ago by Cerium

I don't have any copper pots, but vinegar is my go-to cleaner around the house. Try adding about 5 to 10 percent by volume to a fully flooded pot and let it soak for an hour or two, bring to a boil of you are impatient. This works wonders for my pots, shower, sink, etc.

2 hours ago by sebmellen

Bar Keepers Friend is great for most copper/metal cookware and other things around the house like sinks as well.

a day ago by simonblack

Shake and shake

The ketchup bottle.

None'll come,

And then a lot'll.

7 hours ago by devoutsalsa

As someone who can use almost an entire bottle of Heinz 57 on an order of French fries, this made me laugh. Whenever I ask for ketchup at a restaurant and they bring me “only” 4 packets, I do my best not to roll my eyes in disappointment because I know how ridiculous I am.

4 hours ago by yesenadam

Doesn't sound ridiculous. Those little plastic packs with enough sauce for just a few chips are ridiculous! Anywhere that does that shouldn't be allowed to call themselves a restaurant. I guess the idea is people will never ask for enough packs, so they save sauce. Uses a lot of plastic though, not to mentioning ignoring what the customer wants.

7 hours ago by capableweb

If I were you, I'd slow down with the ketchup alright, that sounds obsessively much. Consider that commercial ketchup tends to have lots of sugar and sodium.

6 hours ago by devoutsalsa

It’s alright. I balanced it out with a Diet Coke.

7 hours ago by kortilla

Armchair nutrition advice on the internet, that’s a first! What’s next? Ice cream and cigarettes are bad!?!? The gall!

7 hours ago by DougN7

My Grandma said:

Silly silly ketchup bottle

First a little

Then a lottle

Same meaning :)

7 hours ago by lordgrenville

I find this with some brands but not with others, so assumed it was a solved problem and some manufacturers are just cutting corners on bottle design. Is this not the case?

6 hours ago by thihguy

Is solving the ketchup bottle problem like nuclear fusion, the solution is always 10 years away?

The flexible plastic bottles mentioned in the article are just as bad, for some reason they make them very thick.

Anyone know why ketchup doesn't come in a toothpaste like tube? That feels like it should work. What am I missing?

3 hours ago by alliao

I thought the article's reminiscing a bygone era now that the plastic bottle have sort of won?

I find them perfectly adequate to be honest, the full on red ones, or the upside down supermarket types...

6 hours ago by DanBC

Perhaps it's because the vinegars can settle out, so you want to shake the bottle? You can't do that with a tube.

6 hours ago by monkey_monkey

It's probably a sizing issue, given how much ketchup gets used, you'd need a lot of toothpaste tubes, and making them huge would lead the the same issues as you get with other containers.

an hour ago by a9h74j

For those who disagree that the squeeze-bottle solves the problems...

How about packaging ketchup in wide-mouth jars, as is often done with salsa?

an hour ago by Larrikin

There's no need to change the packaging, it's a solved problem that hasn't been implemented for monetary reasons.

https://news.mit.edu/2015/liquiglide-condiments-0630

an hour ago by proggy

If it’s being used for certain mayonnaise packaging in Europe (where mayonnaise is the “ketchup” of the continent), I can’t imagine lack of ketchup market penetration is for cost reasons alone.

an hour ago by vxNsr

What monetary reasons?

7 hours ago by carols10cents

Through decades of experimentation, I have proven that hitting the 57 on the bottle is the best way to get the shearing force going.

6 hours ago by gerdesj

Hold the bottle in one hand as normal and instead of hitting the back of it, hit the underside of your wrist instead ie hitting upwards not downwards.

The bottle and the liquid are two "things" which are loosely connected together via "fluidy" friction etc. When you hit the back of the bottle, you are effectively trying to force the bottle around the ketchup that is trying to dribble out downwards. Gravity is trying to drag the ketchup out. The impact will make the ketchup a bit more liquid. Some ketchup will flow. We know it does because it does!

When you make an impact upwards, then you are making the bottle try to leave the ketchup behind (inertia). Combine that with gravity and the impact liquidising the ketchup and more of the stuff comes out.

There are other considerations such as the shape of the bottle. If you want the fastest deposition then probably something like a conical bottle with 45deg at the apex or whatever minimises internal surface area for a given contained volume. However that will dump an entire bottle in one go and you will impale your hand if you tap the back of it. It's quite a tough problem. The squeezy jobbies seem like a bit of a cop out somehow!

Assume a spherical, infinite ketchup bottle. Be careful with your aim.

7 hours ago by halfmatthalfcat

I've always heard this is by design.

4 hours ago by graderjs

Don't hit the bottle. Keep the lid on, invert, and shake vigorously, until flow. Then remove the lid and shake gently to apply.

7 hours ago by _Microft

Hmm, is it possible to add exactly so much corn starch to ketchup that the thinning and thickening effects cancel out?

If it is then most likely only for a particular force applied because it seems unlikely that the effects are exactly opposite?

Edit: it should have occured to me that combining ketchup with thickeners might be a well-researched topic in food science already.

6 hours ago by DanBC

> it should have occured to me that combining ketchup with thickeners might be a well-researched topic in food science already.

There were articles during the Gulf War about armed forces being unhappy with thin ketchup, so they brought in standards for flow rate. (I'm struggling to find those for some reason).

Here's the FDA spec for consumer ketchup.

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfCFR/CFR...

> (b) Quality. (1) The standard of quality for catsup is as follows: The consistency of the finished food is such that its flow is not more than 14 centimeters in 30 seconds at 20 deg.C when tested in a Bostwick Consistometer in the following manner: Check temperature of mixture and adjust to 20+/-1 deg.C. The trough must also be at a temperature close to 20 deg.C. Adjust end-to-end level of Bostwick Consistometer by means of the spirit level placed in trough of instrument. Side-to-side level may be adjusted by means of the built-in spirit level. Transfer sample to the dry sample chamber of the Bostwick Consistometer. Fill the chamber slightly more than level full, avoiding air bubbles as far as possible. Pass a straight edge across top of chamber starting from the gate end to remove excess product. Release gate of instrument by gradual pressure on lever, holding the instrument down at the same time to prevent its movement as the gate is released. Immediately start the stop watch or interval timer, and after 30 seconds read the maximum distance of flow to the nearest 0.1 centimeter. Clean and dry the instrument and repeat the reading on another portion of sample. Do not wash instrument with hot water if it is to be used immediately for the next determination, as this may result in an increase in temperature of the sample. For highest accuracy, the instrument should be maintained at a temperature of 20+/-1 deg.C. If readings vary more than 0.2 centimeter, repeat a third time or until satisfactory agreement is obtained. Report the average of two or more readings, excluding any that appear to be abnormal.

5 hours ago by asidiali

This is what I come to HN for.

Mind blown that ketchup is such a specific science like this.

5 hours ago by MauranKilom

And here's one in action (with what appears to be ketchup): https://youtu.be/z_44kDWdhw8?t=53

6 hours ago by agumonkey

Would make a magnificent youtube video.

6 hours ago by User23

Also true for (some?) honey[1]. I remember learning about Ketchup and that, among many other things, from the Einstein Anderson books[2] when I was a child.

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02608...

[2] https://www.goodreads.com/series/101369-einstein-anderson

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